👀 Take a look at the salaries for some of the top #tax roles at #HMRC, published online as part of their transparency policy.
— Alex Mann (@alexmannHJ) December 6, 2016
📸: etaxjobs pic.twitter.com/4EUiaaRsQz
Tax does have to be taxing.
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Overpaid. A wasteful use of tax our money. Too many senior personnel occupying 'non-jobs'.
ReplyDeleteNeed some comparators and ratios tossed around, e.g.;
ReplyDeleteWhat does the lowest salary for staff amount to?
What is the ratio of top:bottom of this organisation amount to?
Is there a value for money test that can be applied?
How many of the top paid are getting their bonuses?
WHY!?
Do they still pay special or management awards?
Does the average taxpayer care?
WHY NOT!?
What does the P.M. earn again?
I agree that if we had answers to the above, we could examine the value for money objectively.
DeleteMay I also suggest: if bonuses are paid, what are they for?
Do management get paid bonuses for the immoral conduct of UNLAWFULLY hounding staff out of the organisation and for the number of redundancies they sanction or for the role they play in covering up bullying and other law breaking?
Yes. Fuck-all. And yes. Next question?
DeleteA very succinct clarification. No further questions necessary on that one. In other words all our tax money is being spent stuffing the pockets of those carrying out unethical conduct, trampling over the fundamental human rights of their own staff and the public. Don't know how they sleep at night.
DeleteAs the football chant goes "what a waste of money"...
ReplyDeleteShould the senior management of HMRC lose their bonus if they have sent a dishonest & misleading letter to an elected Member of Parliament, thus undermining democracy?
ReplyDeleteNo - it should go further than that - any dishonesty in public office would certainly be gross misconduct and the only way to maintain the trust & confidence of the public would be dismissal in such a case. There is also a common law offence of misconduct in a public office.
DeleteIf anyone thinks misconduct in public office would ever be considered, think again. Even when presented with compelling evidence of criminal offence under the Data Protection Act, the reality is HMRC just turn the other way. Self-regulation does not work - the IPCC need to take a close inspection of HMRC, its long overdue.
DeleteYou could almost believe it was being set up to fail and run as a franchise?
ReplyDeleteThe staff have been smashed into submission by management and the Lean/Pacesetter mantra.
PCS is an outpost of Trotskyist agenda and almost useless, if you consider its track record in protecting jobs above people.
Then there is the continuopus ignoring of reality by those in power.
Whitehall Farce? No, more like The Muppet Show than The Muppet Show!
A very honest assessment of HMRC and their mates at the PCS Union. If they can behave in such a psychopathic manner and treat their own staff like something on the bottom of their shoe i.e. with no human dignity, would they think twice when dealing with the tax assessment of joe bloggs the tax payer - no I don't think so. Makes you wonder why the public would trust them?
DeleteDo not under any circumstances trust HMRC. Just don't.
DeletePCS is full of shameless reps using their position to cement relationships with management for their own individual gain. These so called 'confrontations' they like to boast of are just ' hey your bullying these workers and I'm a noisy red army activist but thanks for the invite to your party and remember to join my facebook page'
DeleteUnfortunately this is common occurence and it's a Union you approach with zero confidence.However, anyone wanting to start on the promotion ladder could do a lot worse than be a PCS rep as honesty and principled decency are traits lacking in 80% of these characters.
PCS union are the unacceptable face of the far left and Corbyn/McDonnell types. I very politely, but comprehensively, presented evidence to PCS of a shameless rep stitching me up and not being honest with me and helping the management in their unlawful, and immoral, harassing manoeuvres. The PCS Legal Officer replied, and over a number of communications became increasingly arrogant & aggressive in his post-truth attempts to justify unethical misconduct of the brown nosing rep in question. I wrote to the General Secretary Mark Serwotka - who apparently gets over £100k plus perks (that's socialism in action folks) - and they knew they were on such dodgy ground he didn't even reply. A bunch of turncoats/actors doing it for individual gain as per the above. If they were a regular business I would be seeking prosecution action against them for taking my money and not providing a service in return - fraud by false representation. These people are part of the problem at HMRC.
DeletePCS like to privatise the profits and socialise the losses.
DeleteThink of the profits being the members fees which they pocket and share for their own ends - huge wages, food, political campaigns etc. Think of the losses being the loss of your job etc down to their incompetence and misconduct.
PCS union had NOTHING to say about a serving HMRC senior officer committing a criminal offence, the victim being a then HMRC officer, and HMRC turning a blind eye as to the action and consequences.
DeleteIf a trade union can not stand up for basic standards of professional and law abiding behaviour then there really is no point to them. I am sorry, but it is disgusting.
PCS is continuing with its support for Pacesetter. There will be a very small percentage of reps who are exasperated over this but stay and hope there are changes from within but the majority are willing to hop aboard this carriage of hypocrites and untalented go getters in expectation of personal gain.
DeleteThe rest of us are forced to partake in this wasteful nonsense.Lets get this straight ;
Pacesetter is a sharpened bullying implement giving managers a wide range of choices to fail you on the PMR process. If they don't like you there will be something there for them to fail you on. If they like you, there will be things for them to pass you on.
At present,I have never known such a toxic atmosphere in my of HMRC.You have teams of normally GOOD and DECENT people where EVERY member is hoping that their managers visit to the hospital will result in a grim diagnosis.
In the past managers would be given secret nicknames which were mild and non offensive. Now, some are tagged with names of the most disgusting creatures from the animal and reptile world.
When the onus should be on serving the public,we have to deal with the distraction of in house wars initiated by managers bullying workers and the workers having nowhere to turn.
The above is very perceptive. The problems start from the policy, deliberate or otherwise, of elevating yes people, inadequate bullies and 'untalented go getters' into 'management' positions at HMRC.
DeleteAs for the toxic atmosphere, if an organisation allows bullying and other law breaking to go unchecked, and if HMRC carries some unscrupulous untouchables who then run riot, the focus is not clearly not going to be on doing what they are paid for - delivering a top quality service to the public and exchequer.
Those HMRC staff who do try, despite the atmosphere, to focus on the real job, and who tend to have the public service ethic, are normally the ones targeted by management via whatever means they fancy up to and including committing criminal offences, as a fact. The logical conclusion is the there is a drain of skilled, talented and committed staff, while those along for the ride who socialise with managers etc stay put. Does this affect the service the public get? Look at the mess the place is in. Read the PAC report.
While PCS endorse timid reps who are masquerading as on the side of the victims, but really are untalented cowards scared of becoming managements next victim, the 'problem solving' process becomes somewhat convoluted, leaving workers with nowhere to turn.
"The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing" - too many timid yes people at HMRC standby while the brutal bullies ride roughshod over people's fundamental human rights. Time for IPCC to take a close look at the inhumane HMRC.
DeleteA good thread.I would be sure that a link would exist between increased cases of sick absence through stress and the areas, floors or wings where bullying is prevalent. In other words a double whammy of wasted funds the equation being something like Pacesetter = wasted money + a gift to nasty insecure managers = bullying = stress related absence = loss of more funds.
DeleteWasted funds + loss of more funds = misuse of public funds. Bullying = violence (physical and/or emotional and/or mental). If people at HMRC are misusing public money and acting violently then surely if there is not a statute offence on which to prosecute, the common law offence of misconduct in public office is applicable and should be considered. It would send out a strong message of that they are cleaning up the place and that nobody is above the law. The reality is, when it suits them, HMRC do not even investigate so disciplinary action, never mind criminal prosecution, is never even considered and there are cases of SERVING officers who have got away with totally repugnant behaviour/misconduct. Are they a risk to tax payers? Corruption?
DeleteHaving raised the subject previously, the cost in terms of pain, anguish and stress to individuals, families and teams of bullying is huge.
DeleteIt was estimated that the literal destruction of a small team of 6 and having to absorb their work elesewhere was around £3/4m taking into consideration specialist trained staff affected and the costs of long-term or permanent absence, sick relief, retraining, numerous grievance procedures and a few other bits besides including loss of respect from partner agencies and internal.
It comes to something when senior managers resign in disgust, but at least that should add credence to what is stated as happening in there.
2 previous heads knew all about it as did OAC/NAO, so how deep does this rabbit hole go?
I, and many others, await the opportunity of seeing the IPCC let loose on the bastards but somehow doubt that whatever, if anything, happens will be seen as a whitewash.
OAC = PAC
DeleteThe above is very interesting and to be put into context is not an isolated case. There is a massive story of misconduct and 'untouchables' to be heard in the public interest - my guess is its been suppressed for a number of years by HMRC. Once the stories finally get out - and all it would take is for the mainstream media such as the BBC, The Daily Mail, The Times etc to get a whiff of the reality in HMRC - there will doubtless be widespread calls for a public inquiry.
DeleteWhen thinking about it the number of people aware of what goes on already - MPs, GPs, counsellors, ACAS, mental health specialists, trade unions, solicitors, and friends & family of the victims, it is surprising its been kept relatively quiet for so long.
As for the cost - financial and human suffering etc - it is indeed so huge that it is unquantifiable. The cowardly unscrupulous monsters, who I am sure go round masquerading as decent civil servants, deserve to have more sleepless nights than the victims have suffered and should be brought to book.
As 'twas I @ 13:14 above, and other contributions, may I be permitted to reply and indulge...
DeleteJust to add a wee bit to the credence scenario please consider this;
I eventually left HMRC in disgust having run out of Sick leave and then SSP and for some mysterious reason my employer had not dismissed me for non-attendance? Despite having contibuted 40 years pension contributions because I was 59 (19 when I started ) when I went I only got 39/80ths on the pension. An appeal to the Pension people failed, c'est la vie! I would possibly have worked until 65, although given the way things are in there I might not have.
I am not alone in this experience and forgot to add to the previous estimate of costs the cost of a series of vexatious complaints made by a bullying manager who tried to muddy the waters. On this occasion, 6 people, most of whom were managers were complained against by a tw@t of a manager that had by all reckoning approx. 100 complaints and or grievances, of thiose found, 2 resulktyed in monetary compensatory payments to individuals.
Do I think there is a monumental cover-up? You better believe it.
My thanks for the perception and understanding of 15:36. Very astute analysis.
An observation: 100 complaints were made. It resulted in cover-up. Should those crown employees who covered up be personally sued at court to recover to the public purse all the money wasted on the corrupt behaviour.
DeleteInterestingly, following the resurfacing of a historic letter from union to management it looks as though the words 'vicarious liability' might have triggered a reaction a couple of years ago as senior management began to realise their own positions could be at risk.
DeleteMotivation, wonderful thing at times?
There's nothing like management putting their own wages and cosy lifestyle at risk. CYA they say. If only they would think of the staff now & again, and indeed show a little motivation to the public they're paid to serve. A lot of management don't even have insight as to their core purpose - collecting the right amount of tax at the right time - and its treated as an inconvenient add on to the systematic bullying of targeted officers. Post 2005 its been a strange, and pathetic, place and a wee bit mismanaged at times.
DeleteAnyone wondering why management would act violently towards some staff? Well, if I may explain how you get a management position at HMRC to start with. Very few staff who EXCEL at the REAL WORK are elevated to management. That leaves those who were less than average at the real work (but were rather good at brown nosing, bullying, and pretending to care about some pointless internal initiative) to be progressed by like minded people from within. And then we have the graduate direct entrants. The former, useless at the real work, feel inadequate & inferior to those they 'manage'. The latter, often well meaning, have only limited appreciation of what HMRC is for.
DeleteThus the talented grafters are then stuck in the lower grades but become less effective as their morale is sapped away by thuggish management. Any normal organisation would want to retain their productive workers as they deliver the profit (financial/private or social/public); not HMRC though. Its a perfect recipe for the dysfunction we're always reading about.
All this about PCS reps. They go out of their way to help alleged criminals, rule breakers, the incompetent & lazy at HMRC? But walk away from hard working productive victims of management endorsed bullying? The thing is 90% of PCS reps have been brainwashed by the brainless far left ideology that says wrongdoers are the victim of circumstances society put on them. Anyone else outside of their narrow outlook is underserving of support sadly.
DeleteWhat are the HMRC fat cat management getting these eye watering salaries for exactly? The organisations needs improvement urgently.
ReplyDeleteManagement is not required at HMRC. Yes, really. Look at the mess the place is in. Time to join the 21st Century. What is urgently needed is leadership. Leaders leading by example; inspiring & motivating others; setting out a direction of travel; acting with integrity (e.g. no bullying, no dishonesty, no breaking the law etc); creating a culture where people can thrive. Those dreary mob could not motivate the average person to eat if they were starving.
It need not be a utopian dream but we all know its never going to happen with the bunch of incompetents 'running' the place. As somebody recently alluded to its like its deliberately mismanaged so it can fail and be privatised.
Unless the sheeple get off their arses and write to their M.P.'s and otherwise collectively create a lot of noise then fu@k all will happen, as it has for the last x years.
DeletePut up or shut up applies, you have to do more than moan on here about HMRC to even get noticed by anyone other than the 'monitors'. There are sufficient leads from the media, here and social media for someone to effectively join the dots. Ken?
No smoke without fire? Jeez, its a wonder we can see through the clouds emanating from HMRC.
Quite right. Self-regulation, self-policing, self-supervising, self-reforming have all failed at HMRC. Unless or until independent governance is imposed on senior management nothing will change.
DeleteChange can come about if enough past or present victims of HMRC misconduct refuse to suffer in silence and get the story out there. It can't go on like this. Victims should not be afraid of management's position, its that fear they hope will protect them from necessary scrutiny, and always bear in mind the law applies equally to everyone.
And so it continues, only now the calls for IPCC exceed those for PAC & HMIC combined.
ReplyDeleteNow that tells a trained mind a thing or two?
Paging Mrs May, paging Mrs May, we know you are busy but...
So, given how deep the rabbit hole apparently goes, what will it take for a deep and wide ranging investigation across HMRC's mismanagement and various law-breaking issues?
ReplyDeleteThere will be a time when, as has been previously intimated, the media or someone else picks up this mangy dog and shakes it to see how many fleas and other objectionable items end up on the carpet.
There is a tipping point and from what has been posted over the last month that point may be closer than imagined.
Here's ho[ong.
Here's hoping,-silly mistake, Holong is in West Bengal!
DeleteNo one outside of HMRC really cares. They just think of the employees as "tea drinking Civil Servants". Few outside HMRC were concerned by Hart nets sweetheart deals, even less cared when the same man was caught having broken the Official Secrets Act. No wonder those at the top could give a shit about those that do the work so they can take their over inflated salaries for doing a shit job of their job with impunity knowing nothing or no one will touch them.
ReplyDeleteYes, but I wonder what message it sends out in society when those overpaid elites 'running' a tax organisation enforcing laws apparently struggle to keep within the rules themselves?
Deleteinteresting.To change the subject - does anyone remember the introduction of Performance Management in the early 1990s? Did they hear about anyone refusing to touch it because Inland Revenue itself said it was "not a legal contract"?
ReplyDeletePCS were still telling staff not to agree Performance Agreements on that basis in the 2000s and 2010s.
Delete