My commiserations to the loyal reader who sent me this note (edited) yesterday, re problems that he has been having obtaining a tax refund:"I have been waiting for a tax refund of £XXXX since I received a letter in June stating that the refund would be in my bank account 'in the next few days'.
I waited four weeks, as stated on the message when you ring to enquire, after this 4 weeks I was told that HMRC had put the wrong details on the cheque they had sent to the bank.
HMRC then said they would have to re-issue it which would take 3 weeks... that was in July, it is now coming up to October and still nothing they can tell me.
This has cost me a house as the money was for a deposit I was supposed to put down in July, and now I am faced with the prospect of cancelling a holiday I had booked and paid for, rather stupidly thinking that surely they would have paid me by October?
This is making my life a misery, and probably is for many thousands of other people who live under the rule of this god-awful system. They cause such hardship in people's lives, and there is absolutely no recourse whatsoever."
I believe that he is considering making contact with Panorama about this issue.
Tax does have to be taxing.
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Somebody is lying here and if it is not your reader then they should contact their MP and ask them to contact HMRC.
ReplyDeleteI am that reader and as far as i am aware no-one is lying, it is purely down to the ridiculous procedures and red tape that is in place, in order to re-issue a cheque, apparently they first have to do a security check to get permission to cancel the cheque before they then put it through to be re-issued... the department that does this only accepts things throught the post?... so they have to wait weeks for letters to go backwards and forwards between the offices before anything actually gets done. In this day and age we still seem to have dinosaurs alive and well in Great britain. Im sure they still work things out on an abacus as well... if we send our returns late we get penalised with penalties, im sure they could manage to do things within a reasonable amount of time if the penalties worked both ways.
ReplyDeleteThis looks like a delaying tactic to me.
ReplyDeleteI was due a refund as a result of the tax return I did just after the last year end. I confirmed the bank details with HMRC as I had changed them as part of the return. Guess what, the payment was sent to the wrong bank and a cheque had to be issued.
Do not think for one minute HMRC staff will not lie to you about how long things are going to take. They know full well the official line does not match the reality.
Here is a link for the benefit of HMRC staff.
ReplyDeletehttp://oxforddictionaries.com/view/entry/m_en_gb0487740#m_en_gb0487740
As an HMRC employee that takes telephone calls from the public, we would love to be able to tell taxpayers (refuse to call people customers) the reality, but if we did, we would end up being dismissed, so please stop blaming the staff, who are doing their best in difficult circumstances and under poor leadership, and all these delays are after the previous government cut 30,000 jobs from HMRC in the past 5 years, how much worse are things going to get after the current government make their cuts, so the government are not blameless in this mess.
ReplyDeleteI will stop blaming HMRC staff when they stop lying to people.
ReplyDeletehttp://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/commonwealth_games/delhi_2010/9022160.stm
ReplyDeleteIt occurs to me that the organisers of the Commonwealth Games in Delhi appear to have the same skill-sets as HMRC's ExCom...
"The Government has insisted that everything would come together at the last minute and believed that were it not for the heavy rains and floods which caused widespread damage in the northern part of the country this summer, the project would be 10 to 15 days ahead of schedule."
Now everything makes sense.
ReplyDelete@Anonymous 15:50 I am an employee of HMRC and in all the time I've worked there I have never lied to a taxpayer. I have an official line to take from my employer that I will follow to the letter. Whether that's right or wrong in immaterial, I must follow my employer's instructions, just like you have to in your job, or you get disciplined for insubordination. The fact remains that employees DO NOT decide official policy, only the management and Government decide this.
ReplyDeleteIf you tell a taxpayer something will take 4 weeks but you know it will take a lot longer then you are lying. You can hide behind official lines and the old "my boss told me to say it" routine as much as you like but you are still a lier.
ReplyDeleteAs for following my bosses instructions. Sorry but I work for myself and if I lied to a client I would loose that client. Actually that is the way all my working life has been conducted. But I suppose that's where private and public sector differ. Our "Customers" have a choice.
"ridiculous procedures and red tape that is in place, in order to re-issue a cheque, apparently they first have to do a security check to get permission to cancel the cheque before they then put it through to be re-issued... the department that does this only accepts things through the post?"
ReplyDeleteAll of the above is almost certainly true. If you want to find out where a payment is you have to send stuff through the post. In the past you could phone the banking unit. The same if you need to reallocate payments for employers. You can't contact collector of taxes in some cases. Other tax offices are only contactable if you know someone who works there. There are large swathes of the department that the people who deal with the public are not able to speak to directly.
If they tell a taxpayer it will take 4 weeks its probably because they believe it will take 4 weeks based on the information they have been given.
If they tell a taxpayer it will take 4 weeks its probably because they believe it will take 4 weeks based on the information they have been given.
ReplyDeleteI would give the staff in the call centres a lot more credit than that.
@Anonymous 21:36 - 22/09.The excuse you are using re not lying is exactly the same as that used at the Nuremburg Trials viz I was only following orders. Your contract clearly states that you have to obey REASONABLE instructions. Being told to lie to those who phone in is NOT a reasonable instruction. The Civil Service code exhorts you to be honest in all your dealings. There are plenty of legal remedies available to you if you are being bullied/disciplined by management.If you dont have the balls to do things right then dont complain about being called a liar. That is what you are.
ReplyDelete@ Anonymous 16:06 23/09:
ReplyDelete"Your contract clearly states that you have to obey REASONABLE instructions."
And the people who decide what is REASONABLE are the ones who are giving us the instructions.
"Being told to lie to those who phone in is NOT a reasonable instruction."
You tell the bastards that, then. It's not your arse on the line.
"There are plenty of legal remedies available to you if you are being bullied/disciplined by management."
Is that before or after dismissal and unemployment?
"If you dont have the balls to do things right then dont complain about being called a liar. That is what you are."
If it's not your balls that are going to be nailed to the wall, don't criticise people suffering under a management of thugs who are afraid to say anything for fear of losing their jobs.
bleat bleat bleat!!!!!
ReplyDeleteAnon @ 22:26...
ReplyDeleteTotally agree with you. It is exactly the same in our office; ie run by thugs... feckless and indadequate bastards the lot of them that no fark all about the job. Self-promoting, self-interested arseholes that try to cover up for their incompetence with spreadsheets, league tables and supposed "audit trails" that are in reality there purely so they can point the finger of blame at the staff when it all goes tits up.
Then let's hope for all our sakes you are the one's who get the chop in the coming months.
ReplyDeleteThat way you will not have to put up with the crap in the office and you can stop lying. Win Win situation for you and us.
16:06 23/9 here. I was there, I did tell them, my arse was on the line and at my age I am unlikely to get another job, however the compensation from the Tribunals and Personal injury claims should mean that I will never need to work again or at least I can afford to do things I like in my own time and to my own high standards. Bleat on twat, they did try to nail my balls to the wall but the nails they used were not as strong as the steel in my testicles. Been there, done it, got the T shirt now writing the book.
ReplyDeleteHMRC Staff - stop giving fodder to these losers who think that staff are able to stand up to their employer in any way.
ReplyDeleteMost of them are commenting in the middle of the day and probably don't have jobs or very little to do in their own jobs!
I think you will find that the real loosers are working for HMRC, the rest of us do not need to put our hand up to go to the toilet.
ReplyDeleteHMRC Staff - stop giving fodder to these losers who think that staff are able to stand up to their employer in any way.
ReplyDeleteThe reasons you are not able to stand up for yourselves are known all to well. The problem is that so many of you seem to think that gives you and excuse for lying to the public.
Well it does not.
You will always have trouble getting public support simply because you are the "Tax Man" but lying is not really going to help your cause. I do not work for HMRC but my partner does. I have gone through a lot with them over the years and give as much support as I can. The problem is they cannot deal with the problems unless you all stand together.
@Anonymous 16:06 - 23/09.
ReplyDelete"The excuse you are using re not lying is exactly the same as that used at the Nuremburg Trials viz I was only following orders."
This link may be of interest to you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
I propose that your decision to compare an HMRC call centre worker to a member of the Nazi party tells us two things:
1) You are laughably ill-equipped to engage in any sort of reasonable discourse.
2) All further contributions from yourself should be ignored as the lunatic ramblings of someone who is incapable of taking part in a rational debate.
I have to agree with 25 September 2010 15:37, it is a silly comparison.
ReplyDeleteI think history shows the nazi party where far more organised than HMRC. And there is also the fact that the people running the party had guns and things. HMRC managers only have verbal diarrhea as a weapon.
To Serious Cat, the post by 16:06 23/9 does not mention Nazis or HMRC call centre workers.What is your evidence for making that allegation as the original poster did not. Not all of those on trial at Nurenburg were members of the Nazi party (I refer here to the 1000 trials held after the main members were dealt with).That excuse was not acceptable then and still is not today which, I suspect, was the original intention of the poster to highlight.
ReplyDeleteYour points 1. & 2. are what we in the Psychiatric world would diagnose as Transference. Accusing another of your own failings.
Quoting Wikipedia as a source is a dangerous route to tske as it has been discredited so often that MSN and others have removed links to it. Best check your sources and quote more than one confirming the varacity of that which you quote.
Anon @ 26 September 2010 18:11
ReplyDeleteThumb out of your rectum much?
@ 26 September 2010 18:11
ReplyDeleteIt is true that the earlier post did not mention nazis, HMRC or call centres. However any use of the Nuremburg Trials in the modern western world does so almost exclusively with reference to the Nazis. There are very few people who would be aware if any on trial were not members of the nazi party. In the same way that documentaries freely refer to WW2 as the war against the nazis.
Taken in context it was also quite clear that the comment was claiming HMRC staff were lying to members of the public. Despite the fact it did not say "HMRC staff".
As for quoting wikipedia - godwins law is used, particularly in internet discussions, regardless of the accuracy of wikipedia in other areas. Perhaps you didn't check the link before commenting.
Everything said by serious cat applies regardless of your pedantry.
You can all argue the toss about trials, wikipedia, resonable instructions, bullying as much as you want. The fact still remains that HMRC call center staff lie to the public.
ReplyDeleteAnd that is wrong.
25 September 2010 08:15 commented:
ReplyDelete"Most of them are commenting in the middle of the day and probably don't have jobs or very little to do in their own jobs!"
In my case I have cut down the number of hours I work during the day. This is because I see so much money handed out to scroungers and wasted by HMRC that I have taken the decission to avoid some tax by working less.
27 September 2010 11:48
ReplyDeleteOh. Cut down on your hours to avoid paying tx. That old one.
What. A. Twat.
The reasons you are not able to stand up for yourselves are known all to well. The problem is that so many of you seem to think that gives you and excuse for lying to the public.
ReplyDeleteOk then so if I phoned up the call centre of a large corporation and attempted to bully an employee there in to giving out commercially sensitive information (because apparently it's within my rights to do this according to the logic being applied to people who moan about HMRC staff on this board) and they refuse because their company has told them not - apparently I would have every right to get that employee of said corporation sacked and sued do I?
1 October 2010 19:01
ReplyDeleteHow can you compare telling a tax payer something will take 4 weeks when you know it will take a couple of months with not divulging commercially sensitive information?
It's OK I have worked out the argument used by 1 October 2010 19:01.
ReplyDeleteThey are using HMRC's system for making silly statements and it turns out it is the only system used by HMRC that actually works.
How can you compare telling a tax payer something will take 4 weeks when you know it will take a couple of months with not divulging commercially sensitive information?
ReplyDeleteAll companies have standard practices, the times being given are estimates. Just stop accusing employees of lying.
"All companies have standard practices,"
ReplyDeleteThis is true and I am sure there are companies that treat customers in the same way as HMRC treats taxpayers. The difference is we have no choice in who we deal with regarding tax and HMRC staff have a code of conduct to adhere to.
"the times being given are estimates."
This looks like output from Hartnetts Machine for Ridiculous Comments (HMRC for short)
"Just stop accusing employees of lying."
Why don't they just start being honest instead?
Listen you bunch of Dicks all I wanted to know is how long it takes for a cheque which is reissued after the original cheque sent has been cancelled and if anyone had experience in this matter?
ReplyDelete