It seems that HMRC's £100 automatic fines for late submission of tax returns is a tad too rigid.
No surprises there for those on the receiving end of such fines.
However, the real surprise is that HMRC is of the same view. As such, HMRC is drawing up proposals to end fines for taxpayers who miss the deadline “by a day or two”.
The proposals, currently open for consultation, offer higher interest rates on late payments in exchange for nixing automatic fines. This would be coupled with a penalty point system (akin to motoring offences).
HMRC concede that the existing penalty rules mean “honest” taxpayers who make “the occasional error” are treated the same as “the dishonest minority who try to cheat the system”.
The HMRC proposal is quoted by the Telegraph:
HMRC concede that the existing penalty rules mean “honest” taxpayers who make “the occasional error” are treated the same as “the dishonest minority who try to cheat the system”.
The HMRC proposal is quoted by the Telegraph:
“We know that the vast majority of customers meet their obligations in full and on time, and that penalties are only applied to a small minority of people and businesses.Methinks too many automatic penalties were being overturned, thus making the system look inept and dysfunctional.
We want to make sure our approach works as well as possible.
This is why we want to consider whether we could better differentiate between deliberate and persistent non-compliers and those who might make an occasional error for whom alternative interventions are more appropriate.
The current system makes no distinction between a customer who misses a deadline by a day or two and someone who has made no attempt to comply at all.
There are 'reasonable excuse’ provisions that can remove penalties, but the rules may need updating to better support those genuinely wanting to comply.”
Tax does have to be taxing.
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The system is broken! HMRC are running a cluster fack AND fine you for the privilege. Don't pay the fines and make it so costly to keep chasing you that the systems implodes. HMRC is costing you an absolute fortune to run as a cluster fack..... Don't support them by throwing cash at them!!
ReplyDeleteWake up 'customers' demand service and don't pay 'extra' for the crap you're getting at the moment
It'll cost HMRC £60.00 just to process your 'fine' if you roll over and cough up straight away, stall them for a couple of calls and letters and it'll cost them more to apply the fine than they'll get back from you!
ReplyDeleteDon't forget the fine is a penalty for late payment, ask for the law that states that you have to pay it. I'll bet you £1000.00 that you never get that proof. Don't get fobbed off with Acts, insist on the actual Law that states you are Lawfully liable.
Or just submit on time like the majority manage to do-10 months is long enough surely?
ReplyDeleteAre we obliged by Law to pay Income Tax? Show me the law that says we are.
ReplyDeleteRemember Law, not Acts that need our consent and cannot be applied without our consent.
Perhaps you could talk us through the law that says that acts cannot be applied without our consent?
DeleteThe U.K. is a Common Law jurisdiction and we are ruled by consent. Acts only have power when you consent. HMRC make you an offer (try to get you to enter into a contract with them) in this situation here's your fine, and when start dialogue with them you are deemed to agree / consent. When you don't consent there is no contract and there's nothing that they can do about it. All acts require your consent to become enforceable, without that consent it cannot be applied to you.
DeleteI'll say again ask for the LAW that you have broken that justifies this fine.
Not the ACT. You will never be given that Law, because it doesn't exist !
This is great I don't have to pay?. I must be owed thousands back over 30+ years. Unfortunately it comes directly from my wages...
DeleteCant do jack shit about what's gone in the past, but you can change the future.
DeleteJust got to grow some balls and cease to 'contract' with them. They wont like it and they'll try to scare you into buckling, but no consent no power. Keep asking for the signed contract and the law that obliges you to pay.
11/02, 09:15,
DeleteI understand what you're saying. What I'm asking is where in the law (common or otherwise) it says that "all acts require your consent to become enforceable".
14:35. The £100 fine is not for late payment, it is for late filing. The late payment penalty is a percentage of the tax due and the first one is raised if payment in full of tax due is not paid by 30 days after the due date, or if a time to pay is not agreed by 30 days after the due date.
ReplyDeleteI think this is what our friend is on about, the film goes on a bit, but be patient it is interesting and he seems to be right.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHcxcLBIWGU
Certainly worth a giggle, but I think it's a slightly different kind of snake oil.
Delete"Our friend" seems to be saying that Acts of Parliament don't operate without consent.
The chap in the video is saying that there's a massive loophole in the relevant acts that means income tax is optional and that for 45 years (or 70-odd, depending on which stand of his argument one tugs at), neither successive governments, HMRC/the Inland Revenue, the press, nor the multi-billion pound industry dedicated to providing clever tax-saving wheezes, have noticed it.
Incase people arent aware, the finance act (is a law) & each year it recieves royal assent. The finance act (if you can be bothered to look) sets the law for failure to submit returns, failure to notify, wrongdoing penalties & so on. So good luck with your no contract pish
ReplyDeletePretty much right. There is a finance act each year and, of course, acts are part of the law.
DeleteThe penalties for failure to submit returns, notify, wrongdoing etc., aren't reset each year by the new finance act, they are in longer-standing pieces of legislation (some of them previous years' finance acts) and have effect until they are repealed. The charge to income tax, however, is renewed each year in the new finance act.
And yes, good luck to anyone that tries the "no contract" gambit!
Just to continue from my previous post there, the penalty is a civil penalty, not a criminal penalty. So take your no contract to the 1st tier tribunal (after appealing to hmrc then asking for a review). The fact you registered to complete a return in the first place is an example of you contracting. If you dont want to contract then dont register for SA then u wont get a penalty to begin with. Nobody listen to this no contract rubbish as you will just get in trouble because someone thinks they are a smart arse
ReplyDeleteSo end the contract, no self assessment, no penalty, seems straight forward.
Delete17:12, you're right (certainly in the last sentence) but just to clarify slightly...
DeleteYou don't have to "register" for SA to be legally required to submit an SA return. If HMRC sends you one, or a notice to file one, then you are legally required to file it and you are potentially liable to the penalty if you don't do so on time.
If you're not sent one, you can file one voluntarily. There's no late filing penalty in this case (though the payment due dates still apply, so if you make a late payment of tax brought into charge as a result of a return filed in these circumstances, you may still be liable to interest and late payment penalties/surcharges).
However, the reason HMRC will normally start to send you returns is after you notify them that you are liable to file returns (though they can basically do it for any reason they like so). There are criteria for having to notify (e.g. becoming self-employed) and there are deadlines for doing so (e.g. 5 October in your business's second tax year). If you don't - guess what! - you can be charged a penalty!
Stew G
I cant believe no one has thought of this before. When the bayliff is at the door, just tell them you have sent a letter & arent contracting. Simplicity itself. Watch that bayliff walk away with his tail between his legs. Pure genius & so simple. The public owe you a debt of gratitude. Reveal yourself & take the acclaim...... Cmon dont be so modest
ReplyDeleteHMRC official policy........For some customers......... You are now given 20 Years to submit a self assessment. there will be no fines, no penalties and no chasing from HMRC while you consider doing it.
ReplyDeleteI must disagree with this.....they will only agree to this if you have £60 million worth of capital/assets hiding right under their nose. All you say to them is you have no home or UK income & only get a £15k p/month credit card to drawdown from an overseas company. Seriously though this is starting to wind me up no end. Its not funny
DeleteI know this is winding a lot of people up.... The big question is...... how much more evidence of HMRCs total incompetence and collusion with the old boys network does the SFO, Police, Politicians, and our dear Queen need to take decisive action that will halt the rot and permanently fix this department?
ReplyDeleteQuestion: The SFO and Police know that HMRC is rotten and corrupt, so why are they not investigating this?
ReplyDeleteAnswer One: The police work for the HMRC as dept collectors, so there's a conflict of interests.
Answer Two: The Police are part of the same system of revenue generators.
Answer Three: The controllers of the Police puppets will not allow HMRC to be investigated.
You seem to be saying the whole system is corrupt, I cant really say that I disagree. what is certain is that no one is going to sort this shit fest, we'll be talking about the same issues in 5 Years time.
ReplyDeleteIn Great Britain you're either conning, being conned, or both. I suggest you make sure that you are doing plenty of the first one, and watch out for everyone trying to do the second one to you. No its not cynical, its fact. Tell me the Politicians, Police, HMRC, etc are not working to the same ethos