HMRC Is Shite

HMRC Is Shite
Dedicated to the taxpayers of Britain, and the employees of Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs (HMRC), who have to endure the monumental shambles that is HMRC.

Wednesday, 23 May 2012

RTI On Track?

HMRC recently announced the addition of a further 310 employer schemes to its Real Time Information (RTI) pilot, launched last month.

Allegedly, RTI will make it easier for employers, pension providers and HMRC to administer the pay-as-you-earn (PAYE) system. Under the new arrangements, employers and pension providers will tell HMRC about PAYE payments at the time they are made, as opposed to only at the end of the year as at present.

HMRC claims that it has so far successfully received over 100,000 employee records from 10 volunteer employers. The additional 310 employers are set to join the pilot between May 8 and the end of June.

Stephen Banyard, Acting Director General for Personal Tax at HMRC, is quoted by Tax-News:
It’s early days, but all the signs are good. RTI is on track - all expected PAYE submissions have been received from the 10 pilot employers and processed. 

The whole point of the pilot is to identify any implementation issues. So far, these have been very few and they have been quickly resolved.

We are working closely with the employers in the pilot who have helped us identify and solve any issues. We have improved our guidance and support for employers and software vendors as a result of the insight and feedback gained. 

We are very grateful for the valuable contribution the pilot employers and software developers have made." 
That's great so far, apparently!

However, according to a comment on, HMRC appear to be a tad selective with whom to pilot RTI:
"I spoke to HMRC about testing RTI in pilot phase for biz with 0-9 employees. 

They were only interested in piloting with those who had substantial payroll & existing systems. 

Interesting, no?"
It looks like the interests and input of/from micro businesses are being ignored.

Comments and opinions are, as ever, very welcome.

Tax does have to be taxing.

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  1. There was an internal "announcement" today about a further 200k (I think it was) employers coming on board between late summer & April next year. Doubt it'll include small businesses but we shall have to see.

  2. the pilot phase does not include such small business. And that info is available on the HMRC website that RTI starts with the biggest employers to ensure it will then work for the smallest., well there about as independent an unbiased as you are.

  3. what makes you think that working for a big employer with infinite resources and lots of experience will work suitably for a one man band or Nanny Tax schemes.

    If you think Mr Frost and Freeagent are biased, at least have the guts to not hide behind 'anonymous'!

    I am not biased just an agent made cynical by 39 years dealing with the Revenue (from both sides) and seeing how downhill it has all gone.

  4. I agree totally with Kris having dealt with HMRC for forty years.

    I think, Anonymous, you should be aware that this is based on a comment on a support site used by FreeAgent. It is not their view it is from a user, who is quite prepared to reveal his identity, which is more than we can say about you.

    To say "there(sic) about as independent an unbiased as you are" reveals a total misunderstanding of the article.

  5. *Ahem* (is this thing on?).

    I'm the "user" with my comment in lights. I didn't expect to see it posted here as it was a mere postscript, an addendum, an afterthought to a longer, meatier post on a GetSatisfaction thread.

    As has already been mentioned above, FreeAgent have absolutely nothing to do with the comment, my comments, or the other comments on their public GetSatisfaction community support site.

    Now that's out of the way...

    My involvement with HMRC relates to my business supplying tax return software. Not accounting software, but software that is mostly used by accountancy practices, local government and construction contractors with existing systems. Hence my involvement with the RTI pilot.

    All of my customers who were eligible for the pilot declined. I have to say in HMRC's defense that if RTI really has to go ahead that a pilot scheme makes sense as it includes provision for support (gasp, support from HMRC! - only in the pilot, eh?). However they were unwilling to entertain micro businesses in the pilot program.

    This does mean that at present micro businesses (0-9 employees) who do not already have existing accounting systems that will support a seamless transition to RTI will likely encounter difficulties (confusion, accounting errors, technical glitches) when the scheme goes live.

    I hope this helps Mr/Ms Anonymous, whoever you are...


  6. When I read the post my first reaction was 'you mean there are 10 employers with over 1,000 staff' left in the UK ?

    Probably not in the private sector so I guess that just leaves the public sector.

    This sounds like a train that is hurtling along at 70mph and about to derail – I'm glad I'm not on it.

    Buffet car is closed as well...

    1. Making rhetorical comments about the 'bloated public sector'. A common sport for those who don't understand the simple rules of dominoes.

      Barclays axed 422 of its 2,000 in house IT jobs. Barclays is a private company. As a bank It does not have 30 million+ cus... err taxpayers data to look after. HMRC probably has about 500 in house IT staff backed up by outsourced corporate partners who pay lower wages so that their shareholders dividends are higher. 'It's all about wealth creation you see'.

      So there you go, private sector company #1 with more than 1,000 employees working in just one (non-customer facing) employees even after cuts.

      SITEL and Teleperformance have both agreed to supply 200 staff to HMRC at a cost of £4million to the taxpayer. OK that might not be 1,000 but presumably they don't just have one UK contract. The TOP end of the scale for an AO in the HMRC contact centre is less than £20,000 (which is what £4m divided by 200 is) and these agency people are being paid £13,000, so basically you as a taxpayer are being screwed for the difference by a multinational corporation for the rest and don't tell me it costs £7,000 EACH per agency staff member for sitel/teleperformance to administer the contracts/payroll when in HMRC a few hundred HMRC staff do it for between £7-9 an hour between them for a larger staff base I mean I know someone who employs 6 people and they get someone in for about £50 a month to do the payroll. So that's companies #2 and #3. Need I go on about the bloated private sector?

    2. Oh and here is how the private sector taxpayer funded couldn't CRAPATOS deal with their 'customers' on work capability assessments

      The contract is worth £108m per year. The top rate of Employment and Support allowance is £105.05. Which is the equivalent of 19770 benefit claimants. So basically you are being fleeced again by a private company, but don't worry, the cost is only the size of a small town per year that you are paying direct to a private company.